As I’ve said repeatedly, The Mister and I are passionate people. Despite what other people think, that thing we do where we raise our voices and cut our eyes is not fighting. That’s merely how we communicate. We say what we mean and we mean what we say and we’ll just give you a good what for!
*achem*
When we actually fight, it’s ugly.
Apparently, when we fight, all of our children think we’ll instantaneously divorce. That makes us laugh, but then also, kinda sad for them.
The Mister says to them, “You shouldn’t worry until we’ve given up fighting for it,” but I don’t know how they could possibly understand that. I barely understand it myself.
It’s been 16 years and we’ve had 14 horrendous fights. (Yes, of course I counted, I am a woman.)
Looking back, the early years were rough. In the beginning, frequent adjustments to pride and expectation had to be made. All that’s settled now, but the circumstances never stop changing. To me, that’s what all that marriage crap — sickness and health, richer or poorer — was about. Yes, we’ve definitely had some sickness and poorer, but it’s the unexpected turns of life, the changes, that muck it up over and over again. That’s why it’s so hard. You gotta adapt to all the changes in your own life while adapting to all of theirs as well. Sometimes, you have to do way, way more than ‘your share.’
And sickness includes the evolution of their crazy.
I can remember when my husband could still sit with his back to the door and he remembers when I loved to drive. We adapted.
The adaptation is never-ending.
I bet you couldn’t guess, but when we fight, I am the crazy one. Even on those rare occasions when I’m the logical party, I’m still the lunatic. He maintains a quiet seething rage and I do all the lashing out. Then while I wind down and weep silently, he does his. As it turns out, people like me and people like him have completely different reactions to the exact same events. Can you imagine?
“When we fight, I feel like the world is coming unglued and I am falling apart.”
“When we fight, I want to tear the world apart.”
We have to find the actual problem.
It’s my experience that the actual problem is never what anyone fights about. The fight itself is the superficial evidence of the underlying pain. Most of our fights aren’t the fault of one of us, but both of us, for failing to heed a particular principle. It can all be summed up like basic communication classes teach us.
“When you don’t…I feel…”
“When you…I feel…”
It sounds like “YOU’RE TRYING TO KILL ME WITH WRONG PILLOWS!” or “THE LEAST YOU COULD DO IS PACK ME A LUNCH!” but really, it’s about how someone doesn’t feel acknowledged, respected, trusted, prioritized, valued, understood…
And underneath those desires lie all kinds of nasty things we don’t want to deal with. You know, the stuff. A good fight sorts out the stuff. Resolution doesn’t come without sorting out the stuff. To fight well, you must recognize the stuff and agree that the stuff matters.
We find ourselves closer and better informed after a fight. We don’t fight to win, we fight to get through.
In the denouement, we cleave to one another.
My marriage is many things, including an incredible paradox of frustration and joy that if I put it into words, would sound like this:
“I hate you! You make me crazy! I wish you would go jump off a cliff!
…
But don’t leave me. I couldn’t bear life without you, I love you so much.”
I know, it’s terribly romantic, how we have marital problems just like everyone else. That’s the tragic magic of marriage for ya, people define their own.
joeyfullystated 
“..Two people who refuse to give up on each other..” never sounded right to me. Its like saying to your partner “You have so much potential, let me help you be a better person for me.”
I always preferred the “we can get past this” approach.
Then again, Im not married, so that may be part of the issue. 😛
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I identify with it, or I wouldn’t have posted it, but I’m sure other people, married or unmarried might feel just as you do. It’s exactly what your interpretation is on my end. I do think we have become better versions of ourselves for one another, for the marriage. It also means I won’t give up on him even when he gives up on him, and vice versa. As I wrote, I don’t think there’s any universality in marriage — People do what they do, they choose all the stuff.
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Great post. Lots of wisdom there.
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Thanks, I do so appreciate that 🙂
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I, unfortunately, fight dirty. I have to remember not to do that when I am in a relationship, because it can get really ugly. You have to do what works for y’all 🙂
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Right? I won’t advocate fighting dirty except to say you might find your match there, lol! (I’ve seen it!)
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I do like the idea that two people refuse to give up on one another. I don’t think it is saying, hey – I know you can improve. It’s more like you know this person is so valuable that you are not going to just give up the relationship.
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Here is my take on the refusal to give up on one another. It has been our experience that too many people simply give up and then cut and run at the first sign of trouble. They typically are the sort of people that should not have been married in the first place, at least not to each other. We are not those people. We see the value of what we are as individuals, as well as a couple. We know we have come a long ways from the early days, have been through so much worse, and are not going to quit just because it is difficult for this brief moment (however long that might be). We find the root cause, work through it, and come out on the other side better for it. We are enriched with a new level of intimacy and resolve after it is all said and done.
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Well of course I like your take on it! xxx
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Marriage is tricky business. I often joke that I’m going to add Spouse as one of my jobs on my resume. It may seem strange to include it, until you’ve been married forever and realize that it’s work to remain married. No matter how much you love someone.
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Love your brutal honesty – my hubby and I have almost parted ways many times.
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I love that picture, and the quote too., it pretty much sums it up for me. 🙂
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Marriage and fighting go hand in hand. Don’t they? I have been married 3 times and have fought in all of them; can’t remember the whys. I am currently in a non-marital relationship and we fight as well,so the license doesn’t cause it. I think your theory is as good as any. I like the little picture. It seems as though it may be quite profound, but since all 3 of my marriages ended in divorce what do I know?
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Haha, yes, you can be sure the marriage doesn’t cause it!
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I think you might have nailed it in one line, Joey. “it’s about how someone doesn’t feel acknowledged, respected, trusted, prioritized, valued, understood…” The root cause of it all…the rest is just trivia. Nice post.
I could write one here in response, but ,to summarize. I came from a family of vocal fighters, my husband did not. I used to pick fights just to get him to react. He never did. We had to learn how to deal with all that. It worked out. ☺
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Thanks 🙂
I think your last line tells all. “It worked out.” 🙂
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Not sure I agree with the full view – but so so much I do! Like grinding it out to problem solve and the value of it that the kids will understand later – but I find it difficult to see you as a lunatic! Maybe it is semantics – but – well enough of that.’
And after 16 years I’d say that you have got much to share on – and so congrats for that – my hubs and I are celebrating our 20th this year and for us – it helps that we talk when needed – like press the pause button and MAKE the time – even at loss of sleep – whew – has served us well to problem solve or sort like that- it also helped that he was married before – not too intimate of a share for him- but sculpted him in such a good way and so that was nice to have – we still grew a lot into our oneness while growing individually as well – and also – I love how you pointed out the communication class “I” statements – I am teaching a class that has to role play with those this week and well – some of this stuff is so timeless and universally applicable!
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We’ve lost sleep plenty, and yes, like you said, it was well worth it.
I am the feeling person. The feeling-est person is always the lunatic 😛 But yeah, it could be semantics 😉
I do think the basic communication skills are handy. Especially when both of you have competed in speech and debate, lol!
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Oh that is fun that you both have that similar background in speech and debate – 💜💛
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This is such a thought-provoking post. I agree. We’re all flawed human beings and life is imperfect. Arguments and fights are natural. The important thing is loving the other person and feeling comfortable enough to express our feelings. In my opinion, occasionally, a little fight is healthy. Sometimes it’s the cost for moving forward. 🙂
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The cost of moving forward indeed! Well said 😀
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Thank you. 🙂
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“I hate you! You make me crazy! I wish you would go jump off a cliff!
…
But don’t leave me. I couldn’t bear life without you, I love you so much.”
Someone needs to call Hallmark.
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Good. Feeling less alone now. And I thought only Italians are like that.
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Haha, no, likely not. I’m plenty Italian, but The Mister is none and he’s still quite raucous! 😛
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That really pretty much sums up a marriage. Good job. 🙂
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Thanks 🙂
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We used to joke that my parents were like Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton in Days of wine and roses movie. I actually felt that was important in love to be able to be dramatic, Joey. 🙂 My middle brother was not happy with the way my parents carried on and suggested he and my Dad leave together and my Mom, youngest brother and I carry on our emotions or not, as we saw fit. My middle brother was emotional but also rebellious so he didn’t adapt like my brother and I did. I liked my Mom’s fiery red hair and when I saw Maureen O’Hara or Margaret O’Sullivan (not sure of names?) And Katherine Hepburn express themselves I came to feel my parents were “normal.” Maybe show your kids movies where spunky women speak out? I would also say my counselor said being “nice and quiet” doesn’t show children how to resolve disagreements nor that quiet is healthy! Stuffing emotions was how my grandma handled things, “Pass the salt to your grandpa since we aren’t speaking to each other.” My Mom said they had weeks of silence which she felt made her nervous! My parents “battled it out” but I will tell you they danced in the kitchen or kissed and made up after an evening of “fighting.” It set a standard for me, unfortunately that has never quite satisfied me. Been married to 2 passive aggressive people which drove me nuts! One who took off with women so no keeping him either! I hope someday to meet ♡ a guy who “gets” me. 🙂
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Oh passive-aggressive is awful! I’ve had a few of those. (Never lasted long, lol) Obviously for us, being outspoken and direct works, but that’s not everyone’s style, as repression is not mine.
I don’t remember my parents fighting. Quibbling, I think would be the word. Maybe they were quiet fighters or maybe they didn’t fight. I don’t know.
We are definitely dance in the kitchen, dance anywhere people.
I think today’s kids are at a disadvantage, because there’s so much divorce among their friends’ parents, and of course, kids have no idea what that’s about, so to them, the bottom might fall out at any time.
I hope some day you are ‘gotten’ too, Robin 🙂
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That’s definitely marriage! Why are we all so crazy?!
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😀
I dunno!
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A touching insight.
Just one thing; “cut our eyes”?
Eh?
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Expression in avoiding eye contact or making minimal eye contact — people do it when they argue AND when they flirt.
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Ah, that’s a new one, never heard it described like that before.
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I find a direct glare is more effective when arguing.
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During the speaking part anyway 😉
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Oh, I don’t hold with any of that sulky silent nonsense. If you can’t argue your point in words, I’m not interested in playing stupid mind games. I usually just get progressively more amused during arguments, I find them way too enjoyable. ;~}
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LOL
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I can totally relate and agree ‘it’s about how someone doesn’t feel acknowledged, respected… understood”. Those are the times when I am most likely to blow up a bit over something small and inconsequential. Perhaps I bottle things up a bit and just need to release the pressure. But it’s the only way I know how.
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Yes, I think plenty of people are slow burners, or pressure cookers, so I don’t think you’re alone there. I’m glad you can relate and I’m sorry you were in my spam. What put you in my spam, I can’t imagine!
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I was happy to read it and was glad to know we are not the only ones. 😊
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I love this post! Thanks for sharing all of this personal stuff – it normalizes things for other people. My husband and I have been know to have some ugly fights as well once in a while. It’s usually after all of the little things build up and one more little thing just blows the lid off!
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You’re welcome 🙂 Thanks for that 🙂 I think a lot of people can relate.
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Married for 38 years…I found this perfect!
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Thank you so much 🙂
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I am shocked, I say shocked that you and your hubby might disagree. LOL The only thing different might be that you are a little louder but honest about the challenges of marital bliss. 🙂
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Thank you! I know, no one ever wants to talk about the thorns and clouds! This is probably why people are surprised to find marriage is not all roses and sunshine!
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I think–I think–that as long as both parties remain convinced that, underneath it all, they are not only loved, but cherished and respected, as a partner, anything can be gotten through. But if the basics are missing from the start or dropped along the way, the marriage won’t survive.
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